12-08-60SpMtg DECEMBER 8th, 1960.
A Special Meeting of the City Council of Delray Beach was held
'in the Council Chambers at 9:00 A.M., with Mayor Glenn B. Sundy in
the Chair, City Manager George Mingle, City Attorney Richard F.
Zimmerman and Councilmen Dugal G. Campbell, Charles H. Harbison,
John A. Thayer and George V. Warren being present.
Mayor Sundy called the meeting to order announcing that the same
had been scheduled for the purpose of canvassing the returns of the
General Election held on Tuesday, December 6th, 1960, and for any
other business which may come before the meeting.
City Clerk Worthing then read the following report of said
election returns:
AL O. AFERY 1107
EOGA M. Fie}nm 740
R. O. (Buddy) PRIEST 759
GEORGE V. WARREN 880
· Do you favor amending Section Pi4 of the
Charter of Delray Beach to provide that
the Mayor of the City of Delray Beach FOR 676
shall be paid an annual salary of
$1,800.00 and each Commissioner shall AGAINST 651
be paid an annual salary of $1,200.00
Do you favor the Election of 'the Mayor FOR 1111
directly by the people for a 2-year
term instead of his selection by the
AGAINST 255
Counc i 1.
TOTAL VOTES CAST - - 1801
In the absence of any declaration of contest by any candidate
in the Election, it was moved by Mm. Harbison, seconded by Mr.
Thayer and unanimously carried to certify the returns of the General
Election held on December 6th, 1960, as read.
There was discussion and action as follows:
Mr. Harbison: "I notice from the local paper where one of our City
Councilmen has been out of town on a trip to Washington, I believe
it said. I would like to ask if that was in an official capacity.
It seems as though it was implied in the paper that it was."
Mayor Sundy: "What do you mean?"
Mm. Harbison: "Was that the direction of the City Council or is that
on his own?"
Mayor Sundy: "I wasn't at the caucus the other afternoon. I was at
the regular meeting Monday night. I don't know whether it was dis-
cussed in the caucus about it being official."
Mr. Harbison: "I would like to take this time to give a little
consideration here to our so-called caucuses of Monday afternoon.
I have always held t~at the Council members have the right to get
together as a committee to get information and try to learn what is
going on. I think it saves a lot of time in our regular meetings;
but due to the continued insistence of some of our Council members
to try to take action at those get-togethers, I~m going to move that
we open them to the press and the public, if we continue to have them."
The motion was seconded by Mr. Campbell and carried unanimously.
Mr. Harbison: "I didn.t get an answer, .what I thought was sufficient,
on this about the trip. I would like to know whether or not that was
authorized. If that trip was representing the City or what. If it is,
I would like to know whether I'm being represented or not."
12-8-60
DECEMBER 8th' 1960.
Mayor Sundy: "I wasntt at the caucus. I know it wasn't in the meet-
ing Monday night."
Mr. Campbell: "At the meeting on Monday afternoon the matter was
discussed. If I misquote anyone I trust that they will correct me.
It was made clear to me by the City Attorney, after the matter was
discussed in general, and after I had expressed your desire that
someone go to Washington, in particular myself, that the matter could
be handled under the authority given, the City Manager in the same
manner that previous trips have been made and that when I returned
I would make my reports, financial report as well as other reports.
It was intended, I believe, to bring it up Monday night. In fact I
had it on my pad to bring it up then, "but not that it is necessary,
only that the matter might be made public. There was no secret -
about it. It was given to the local papers before I left, that I was
making the trip, and the reason for it. With your permission I would
like to make a report as to the results of that trip. The meeting
was set up with the representative department. I met with Mr. Niles
Jackson, Executive Assistant to Postmaster General, he being assigned
to the meeting by the postmaster; also Mr. Thomas Fox and Mr. A. R.
Short, representing the insulation department and Mr. Lloyd A. Sifford
of the Atlanta Office, who was in Washington and called into this
meeting. The result of it, I think, will be of interest to everyone
in town because of some of the publicity that has been given this
roject. I enph~sized that we, the Council, representing the City,
ad no quarrel with the department. Each and every one of them in
turn emphasized that they certainly had no quarrel with us, the City,
that we both had the same thought in mind, to place this building at
the point it would best serve the entire area that the Post Office
does serve. We went over it in detail pointing out not only the two
locations that have received the most publicity, hut also the other two
locations that the Post Office Department studied, one of them being
the Holland property on 2nd Avenue and the other one being the one out
at the old driving range, which I took the occasion to tell them is no
longer on the market and that they had been notified of that some time
ago. That is a piece of property that my associate and I happen to
own and I do not want it to he under consideration and it will not he
considered. Another thing -- Mr. Sifford was instructed or told that
the department wanted another survey made as quickly as possible. It
was first suggested possibly next week, but it was pointed out that
was just before Christmas and another survey has been promised so that
it was left that Mr. Sifford, the representative from Atlanta, and
possibly others will be down very, very shortly after Christmas. I
think if the trip didn't do anything else but clear the atmosphere as
far as there being any fight between the City and the Post Off~e
Department, it was worthwhile."
}.~ayor Sundy: "I think that is a very good report, and I am certainly
in favor of paying the expenses of }~r. Campbell if that is the question.
It seemed like according to the papers and according to the Atlanta
office that we were going to be put off indefinitely; but, it seems
like now, after this trip, that we might get a survey in the very near -
future a~d I think.that means that it's possible for us to rush ~p the
post office. I thznk the city should take an active step in it.
Mr. Harbison: "Mr. Chairman, I am in accord with quite a bit of what
has been said; in other words, I think the results of the trip maybe
fine. It's the policy and how it is set up, and if I get it right
from Col. Campbell he says that his authorization came from the City
Manager. What is the authorization, that's what I have asked."
Mr, Campbell: "The authorization was the result, I would say, of the
meeting Monday afternoon."
Mr. Harbison: "The~ you are sayin~ action was taken in the meetin~
~nday afternoon?"
~r. Campbell: "I would say a discussion was held ~nday afternoon.
It was pointed out, you were there, Charlie, so you correct me if I
make any mistakes, and I know you will. The subject discussed, a
straw vote was taken, I told you all that I was authorized by your
}~ayor to speak for him, that he favored the trip and as we have in
2 12-8-60
DECEMBER 8th, 1960.
"many, many oases taken an unofficial straw vote. that is tl}e only
thing you can take at a caucus, they are n. ot official meetings, the
opinion was 4 to i from the council favoring 'such a trip. ,You said
that you were in accord with the four, that you felt that, if I mis-
cruote you, correct me, that you felt that the council was not on firm
ground in asking the Post Office Department to place the Post Office
south on the so-called Zeider property and therefore you were against
it. Then we discussed the ways and means of doing it and I believe it
was made quite clear -- Dick, I trust you will correct me if~I am
wronG, that in the same manner that the so-called Atlanta trip, the
trip to Camp BIanding when 4 of us representing the city went up
there to buy surplus equipment, in the same manner that that was made,
for the good o.f the city, that we had the authority, the City Manager
had the authorxty, or the Mayor had the authority, to request' it and
I, in the heat of the moment, took exceptions to your remarks, said
as far as I was concerned it could be done that night in open meeting,
giving authority, and I fully intended if someone else didn't bring
it up to bring it up, you have my word on that. It was over-looked.
but the only reason it was being brought up was to satisfy you on t~e
the point, but it doesn't change the facts of the case in any manner.
I'm glad that you brought it up this morning for I can show you that
I hurried down to this meeting intending to bring it up and to make
this report publicly. I would have been here a few minutes earlier
but I had two calls from newspaper people to whom I took it upon my-
self to give the same report as the local paper already had."
}.~r. Thayer: "Mr. ~'~ayor, I think possibly some of this misunderstand-
ing is perhaps my fault, because I understood lastMonday night that
Col. Campbell was to bring this thing up and I was going to second
his motion, but apparently there was some misunderstanding. He
thought I was going to and I thought he was ~oing to, and it was not
brought up and I think that was partly due to the fact that at the
time we felt that perhaps some other interest was coming in here ard
we were 9oing to bring it right up; then in the confusion, the meet-
ing went through very smoothly and it is possibly my fault that I
didn't bring this matter up. I intended to, and then it went by and
that's the story on that."
Mr. HarbiSon: "Mr. Chairman, I would like to make myself clear on
this, that I am not against the Post Office being here or any place
else, as far as that goes, I-am not taking that stand. At the caucus,
the three other places, as far. as I am concerned, were not nec-
essarily mentioned. I don't recall that they were. The idea that
somebody was going up there with the point of selling one location,
well, I'm not against the location, I'm not against the location at
all, but I think that if somebody is going to try to sell a location
it ought to be under the authority of the council, or some authority~
Now he says he hasn't had authorization from the City Manager, we
couldn't have taken action because we didn't have a meeting, an
official meeting, so what authority did he Go under? I can't see
that he went under any. Now I say that he might have done a lot of
good, but I don't see that we have authorized him to do it."
Mr. Warren: "Mr. Mayor, I move that the City of Delray Beach reim-
burse Mr. Campbell for any expense in appreciation for his trip to
Washington, D. C., in behalf of a possible location for the Post
Office."
Mr. Thayer seconded the motion subject to the money being taken from
the Contingency fund.
Mr. Harbison: "~&r. Chairman, to the motion, I'd like to indicate
this: I don't think the man has had authorization at all from any-
body, and that...."
Mr. Warren: "Mr, Mayor, our attorney ruled that we had authority in
the meetinG. We went by the word of the attorney."
Mr, Harbison: "Mr. ~yor, will you call him out of order, please,
I have the floor."
Mayor Sundy: "Go ahead, Mr. Harbison."
S
12-8-60 -
DECEMBER 8th, 1960.
~,{r. Harbison: "....and for that reason I am ~oing to vote against
the city obligating expenditures for that trip."
l'~ayor Sundy: '5~ilt you call the roll, please',"
On call of roll, Hr. Thayer, I'.~r. Warren and Mayor Sundy voted for the
motion; ~,[r. Harbtson voted against the motion; Mr. Campbell abstained
from voting,
I. lr. Campbell: "Mr.l.{ayor, may I Just take one moment? I would like
to emphasize for the benefit of all who are here and those who will
read, primarily, it cleared the situation with the powers that be
in getting across to them that we were not fighting for any location
that we were, and had been, on record as against a change in zoning;
that we would welcome any check that they would want to make on any
property, whether it has been named or otherwise, that was zoned for
it. And with that one point clear, I personally believe that it was
worthwhile. I can assure you that if I paid for the trip myself, it
wouldn't break me; and I would be glad to do it for the benefit of
the city -- that, or anything else, with this much money or more.
But there is a matter of principle, and to that matter of principle,
I object."
~,~r. Harbison: "},~r. Chairman, I would like to make one short state-
ment here. He mentioned matter of principle. I mention the matter
of principle, too. I mean we have ways and means of accomplishing
things; and, if we try to circumvent them we can be Just like Germany
was in a period of 9 years. 'They went from a period of law to a
period of lawlessness where one man could say, "Your head is coming
off," and there was no rebuttal. If we try to circumvent the law
here, what is to keep us from the $ or ~ getting together some place
or another and taking an action in secret and approving it 10 months
hence. If they approve it 9. days later, what's the difference?"
Mr. Campbell: "~.~y I ask of you, Mr. }:~yor, and of Mr. Harbison, who
has been at most of the so-called caucus meetings, are you insinuat-
ing that that has happened?"
Mr. Harbison: "I only insinuate exactly what I ~aid."
Mr. Campbell: '~ell, I'm asking you if you are saying to the council.,
as a member of the council, that that has happened? If you are
ing that, I challenge your statement and will ask the other members
of the council that are present at those caucus meetings, I'll ask
the attorney who is present at those meetings, I'll ask the City
}~{anager, the City Clerk, if any action has ever been taken at those
so-called caucus meetings..."
Mr. Harbison: "I have not said they had unless this was an action
las t Monday."
I~r. Campbell: "You were there last ~.~Ionday. You heard our attorney
tell us that we had the right. If you want to question that right,
I'll ask him."
Mr. Harbison: "I think we had the right, if we authorized it."
~!r. Campbell: '~ell, didn't $ out of 4 and 4 out of § discuss the
matter in detail and were told that it wasn't necessary to discuss
it that ~:Ionday night in open meeting, that they had the authority to
send, wasn't that statement made? If not, I'll ask the City Attorney
now. Wasn't that statement made?"
~r. Zimmerman: It's my recollection that it was made. We also asked
the Finance D~rector.whether or not funds were available, that was
one of the main considerations, whether or not there happened to be
funds. Since there happened to be funds...."
Mr. Harbison: "The funds I don't question. They can shift funds
around a. nd pay for it; but, the authorization, the action taken, was
not offxcialand could not have been acted upon."
Meeting adjourned at 9:20
;s;_ R. D._Worthin~
APPROVED: ~:~ayor ' City Clerk 1228"60