05-04-67 May 4, 1967.
A meeting was held at 2:00 P.M., Thursday, May 4th, 1967, in the
Conference Room at the City Hall with Mr. Harold Radcliff and Mr.
Stanley Kelly of Glace Engineering Corporation; Mr. W. Turner Wallis,
and Mr. Stanley W. Hole representing Dickerson, Inc.; and the following
representatives from the City of Delray Beach: City Attorney John
Ross Adams; City Manager David M. Gatchel, City Clerk R. D. Worthing,
Finance Director Thomas E. Weber, and City Engineer Mark C. Fleming.
City Manager Gatchel.- "The purpose of our meeting today is to
hear the representatives of Dickerson, Inc., and their presentation of
the data, the support which they might have as to a claim over and
above the provisions of the Contract for the construction of the
sloping revetment. The amount of such claim as recorded in a letter
from Mr. Wallis to the City as being in excess of $125,000. I think
that is our purpose today here to hear this claim. Unless somebody
has something that would precede such presentation of this claim I
think that would be the first order of business. Mr. Turner I would
like to turn it over to you and let you start out with it."
Mr. Turner Wallis: "The statement made to you of $125,000 was not
a statement as to the amount of a claim to be presented. It was rather
a statement of the indicated increased cost for performing the require-
ment of the Contract beyond those that it would appear would have been
the case had there not been both a change of conditions affecting the
work and actions by the City and its representatives, that in the opin-
ion of the ~ontractor, added to his costs in a manner and to an extent
that might result in a valid claim. I think, rather than attempt to
present in dollars and cents the claim that we first got, to explore
what, in the Judgement of both the engineers and representatives of the
City would constitute a valid claim. With that guidance there are
certainly items of indicated increased expense that wouldn't appear in
the final claim. Both for that reason and the reason that I haven't
had the time that I anticipated ! don't have a figure that I'm prepared
to say can be supported in an exact amount."
City Manager Gatchel: "Well Turner, I don't know that the City
in itself or in the position of our Consulting Engineers on this
project would be in a position to state what we would consider as a
valid claim at this time without first hearing the items that you wish
to bring up for our consideration. I don't think we are in any position
at all to state just carte blanche here without going into the individ-
ual items which you have, whether it would be a valid claim or not.
think it is our purpose here today to hear your presentation. That was
my anticipation of this as it was at our last meeting."
Mr. Wallis: "! am in a position to make such a presentation but
not to the point of saying this, that, and the other item has this, that
or the other amount of dollars attached to it as an extra cost. I
think that we can discuss that, which in the opinion of the Contractor
constitutes a valid cla/m and the agreement or disagreement expressed
by the City and/or the Engineers is almost a necessity, in my opinion,
to get to a dollar figure."
City Manager: "Well, Turner, certainly we have nothing in our
mind now that would be in a nature of a legitimate claim against the
City. We have nothing in our mind. I feel that after you bring up
these various items for consideration, that then we the City and our
engineers are going to have to consider these points. Analyze these
points and give our answer. This was my analysis of what this meeting
would be. Does anybody else wish to give their opinion on this. HOW
about it JOhn Ross."
City Attorney Adams: "I certainly agree with you. You would
in no position to state what a valid claim would be."
City Manager: "Is there any feeling to the contrary on the part
of the representatives of the City here?"
Mr. Wallis: "Do you carry that to the point that you don't want
there to be any discussion until there are dollar signs on the various
items~"
City Manager: "I don't know what the items are Turner. Certainly
we can't establish any dollar values of your points that you wish to
bring up until we know what the points are. At the time, at the present
time I do not have and I don't think any of the representatives of the
City have any points in mind to be discussed. I think it behooves you
as representing Dickerson to bring these Points up."
Mr. Wallis: "'I am perfectly willing to do that, but I misunder-
stood you at the outset that for the meeting to serve its intended
purpose there had to be today the dollar amounts attached to the
various items."
City Manager: "Not necessarily, Turner. I didn't mean to imply
that we would attach a dollar value to any of the points to be con-
sidered here today. In fact, I would go so far as to say that we the
City would take no position in establishing any dollar amount today
to any of the points that you wish to discuss. I think to reiterate
what I said a few moments ago .... I think that it would have to be
analyzed by the City."
Mr. Wallis: "I think we have cleared the point that it is neither
expected nor required that for these several items there will be ex-
pressed today the dollar amount that is claimed."
City Manager: "Not necessarily. I leave this to your discretion
Turner."
Turner Wallis: "I would hope that we could have the benefit of
an expression by the representatives of the City and its Engineers that
even though they didn't say in relation to the particular item, that'
they were favorably or unfavorably inclined, that if it was to be the
basis of a claim that an acceptable method for computing that. In the
work that we have done we found three and even more ways that extra
costs for a particular thing could be computed, and we have been sur-
prised that they would come out as close for all the ways it might be
done. If we could reach an agreement, not necessarily that the item
was going to be proved and allowed, but that if it were to be approved
that an acceptable way of figuring it--because we are not wedded to any
one of several ways it might be done."
City Manager: "Turner, I feel that we are going to first have
to hear these things before we know what you are talking about. As
to method of computation, I don't know what we are talking about com-
puting. I just can't see where we can make any commitment now."
Mr. Wallis: "The reason we were bringing that up was whether
that would be within the framework of this discussion or be outside
the discuseion or be outside the discussion."
City Manager: "Turner, we are just going to have to hear your
points before we can say. We arejust going to have to take it item
by itam."
Turner Wallis: "The happenings that increased the cost of the
work, what would be your preference tO discuss first, the change in
Page 2 Re-Beach Revetment ~'~Y 4, 1967
conditions or actions by the City and its representatives~"
City Manager.- "I don't know that it makes a great deal of dif-
ference. Let's go ahead and take the changed conditions first since
you mentioned it first. For the purpose of the tape here, I would
like to stop just for a moment just before we go into it Turner, and
record the fact that Mayor Avery has come during our previous discus-
sion. Just in for observing. Turner, I feel that since you mentioned
the change conditions first, we will go ahead and take it in that
order. I don't think there is a great deal of difference but if you
l~refer taking this up first, that is fine and dandy with us."
Turner Wallis: "So that we don't go into these items in undue
detail, the lowering of the beach profile and the increased cost that
resulted from that, is the changed condition that the contractor seems
to merit added compensation."
City Manager: "The lowering of the beach profile."
Mr. Turner Wallis: "It made it necessary to do the work under
conditions that were not anticipated in the bid that was made."
City Manager: "I see. Let's go ahead and discuss that first
then. The data as to the amount or degree of the changed conditions
which you would want to sue to support the data to that portion of a
claim."
Turner Wallis: "! would like to have us explore that which has to
be the subject of proof and that which from the knowledge of all parties
concerned is an agreed fact to what extent is it necessary that the
contractor prove that 1. there was a lowering of the beach profile, and
2. that that lows=lng contributed to the cost of doing the work."
City Manager.- "Well Turner, I think that we the City will cer-
tainly recognize the fact that there were changes in the profile of
the beach, before, during, and after the construction stage. I don't
think there is any doubt but what there is. I would feel that there
should be certain references made as to how much, at what period of
time was the change in the profile as much as one foot, two feet,
three feet, four feet, six feet, what was it and what period of time.
How did this enter into the various phases of construction during the
conduct of the contract."
Turner Wallis: "The contract records I am sure are somewhat
duplicated by the records kept by the City and records kept by the
Engineers. We find the contractors records to be somewhat deficient
in identifying particular stations that work on a particular day. We
find them to be quite detailed on what was done day by day, what the
conditions were, what the measures were that were necessary to proceed
with to work so does the City have an ability to identify day by day
the station location and what went on that day."
City Manager: "Turner, I'm going to have to refer that question
to our Engineers. I know that.logs were kept.by the Engineers as to
what degreeby the inspectors that' were there on the job, and to what
degree on the City's part from the standpoint of our city Engineer.
This I will have to refer to them. Bran and Harold, can you fill us
in there."
Harold Radcliffe: "I don't think we could give a specific answer
right here without going back and checking exactly how detailed it was
according to station, day, and the work accomplished, we have inspector
daily reports and they have this information in it. Without actually
looking at these I can't give you and answer right now as to whether or
Page 3 Re-Beach Revetment May 4, 1967
not it provides the information which you are looking for."
Turner Wallis= "I don't particular feel the need for it. The
contractors records will certainly be available to you and you can
examine those to the work and services performed on each particular
day. and the'activity that was engaged in on that day and there is
surprisingly a good documentation on a time---related time of the
conditions of the work. You have got a better picture from the pictures
of the conditions whether they were favorable or adverse and how
adverse. I thinkwhether an increased cost resulted actually is best
measured by the measures that were necessary to proceed with the
work."
Harold Radcliffe: "Does that apply to the second phase of the
question, how to evaluate the cost ~ortion~"
Turner Wallis= "~hat I am saying is that if there is no disagree-
ment that it was necessary to do things, that it would not have required
be done, had there not, been that lowering~ ! think it is in that which
was required that you have the best measure of whether it was an in-
creased cost or not. The fact that the beach was one foot or two foot
might not be of any significance. You might be out in the water in
both instances. You might be sufficiently above land with a profile
no greater different than that. We form our judgment, the validity of
the claim, on what was made necessary to proceed with the work."
Mr. Radcliffe= "I can't accept that entirely from my standpoint,
that the validity of the claim is what the contractor had. to do to
proceed as necessarily being the hand in glove. I think this would
have to be explored to a much greater depth before I would be ready
to agree with that premise. I think we have to get dow~ to basic
fundamentals, and that is the changes of conditions that are referred
to where these changes which were not anticipatedby the Contractor,
for whatever reason this might be, or the basic differences that could
not have been anticipated by anyone under any circumstances. I think
we have got to narrow it down a little further along those lines."
Turner Wallis= "I can state that whatsoever that the changes for
which the increased costs resulted are changes of condition that he
didn't anticipate, and didn't reflect in his bid. When you get into
that whelm of whether anybody could have anticipated it, that's a
much more difficult question to answer."
Mr. Radcliffe= "To re~eat what Mr. Gatchel said at the beginning.
Of course the beach itself had changes before---fluctuation would per'
haps be a better word .... during the job, and afterwards. This pattern
was observable. Now, did the contractor fail to observe the pattern
or was it such a radical change from any established pattern that no
prudent man would have observed it. This is the line that I am trying
to get to. I want to get down to specifics of the changed conditions.
Time and place."
Turner Wallis= "How do you make use of that word--observed?"
City Attorney Adams= "I don't think that is a fair question and I
don't know where this is leading, What materiality does that question
have?"
Turner Wallis= "It's difficult to answer without knowing the
meaning applying to the word 'observed'. Do you mean that he failed
to observe the change after it had taken place. This is the first
thought that comes to my mind."
Mr. Radcliffe= "The ~oint that I was endeavoring to get across I
Page 4 Re-Beach Revetment May 4, 1967
believe is the fact that as we &tt--~know under any contract the con-
tractor is required to observe, or investigate might be better inter-
pretation, closer to what you are ~riving at, of conditions under
which a job could conceivably be done. My question .... my point I
should say was leading to whether or not the claim that is being pre-
sented on a changed condition were due to a failure on the contracto='s
part to fully under, rand under what conditions he had to work or whether
a change in conditions during the work which might be normal cyclical
or perhaps not even normal cyclical was the root and the occasion of
the claim."
Turner Wallis: "The problem with most contractors who seldom
have the time or the inclination to very closely read take cognizance
of the terms and provisions of contract agreements. They are much
more inclined to be governed by other things. In this particular
instance, Mr. Crowe11 was grately influenced in the bid he made by the
City's representatives prior to submission of his bid. He was con-
cerned that if enforced to the letter that the contract documents would
necessitate an increase very much to the City's disadvantage, because
to be fully protected you would have to anticipate all the things that
might happen, many of which would not h~ppen. Mr. Crowelll felt that
he gave the City an unusually Iow bid that had to be predicated on
normally favorable conditions and if they didn't result that there
would be appropriate adjustment. Is it within that framework that we
are going to negotiate, or is it in the framework that the documents
would a~pear to say that no matter what happened there is no liability
for any additional compensation and that absolutely regardless of those
developments, because if that is true, I think that is a very unwise
position for the City to. take. I think that could penalize the C~ty
in future work, having acquired the name of being that much of a stick-
1er for the provisions of contracts quite unusual in their terms and
conditions."
City Engineer Fleming: "May we not just say that the City is
presently not aware of unusual conditions causingan increase in the
contract price, and we would like to hear the contractors presentation
of these conditions."
Turner Wallis: "If that is my way to go, that is what I will try
to do. If i failed to completely indicate I am hesitant to know just
what it would take to make a satisfactory disclosure. The fact that
the wall, in part, had to be built under the influence of wave action
and that the trench couldn't be protected by a sand dike as is the
normal procedure, are the things that increase the cost of building a
wall. Now do I understand that the City is not aware that there was
a wide variation in the conditions under which the wall was built and
that it couldn't be built with equal ease, each and every foot Of the
approximately 2800 feet."
City Engineer Fleming: "I used the words 'unusual condition'
causing an increase in the contract price. If there was some section
of the~wall that was built under these unusual conditions, cannot you
not tell us the length of the wall, the extent of the unusual condition.'
Turner Wallis: "Yes, I can."
City Engineer Fleming: "That's what we are mainly interested in."
Turner Wallis: "But for what purpose. The remarks made by Mr.
Radcliffe would indicate that even so, that there would be no disposi-
tion to concede that that was the basis of any additional compensation."
Harold Radcliffe: "I think, maybe you misinterpreted my remarks
there. What I was stating---I was trying to define what we meant by
Page ~ Re-Beach Revetment May ~, 1967
changed conditions. We are getting now into a little different field,
I think I am getting more of a feel of what you are saying here now..
I think it is recognized by all of us that a different work procedure
was used in different parts of the beach because of the occasion, at
least in part, of the working conditions. We now get to a question,
as I see it, of whether or not these work procedures were in any way
considered in advance by anyone and what representations, if any, might
have been made by representatives of the City .to the Contractor prior
to bidding, to make him expect something other than the contract as
bid."
Turner Wallis: "I previously stated and I repeat, the contractor
did not anticipate the necessity of doing those things for which he
claims his costs were increased. It is my opinion from examination of
the plans, drawings and specifications, that the contractor was not
alerted to the possibility of that sufficiently to warrant taking that
into account, and if the engineers had anticipated that, they didn't
make that fact plain in their documents."
Harold Radcliffe: "I believe you will find in the specifications
that the wall was broken into two ~arts, into two lengths, because we
did recognize that the beach was not uniform in its entirety, and we
had an opportunity in there for bidding at a different unit price to
compensate if the contractor so elected. This was very distinctly set
out in the bid."
Turner Wallis: "We were worried about separation. My comment was
to the effect that there was nothing that would indicate the possibility
of having to work under materially different conditions with greatly
different procedures. The exactness with the engineers control later
operations doesn't reconcile with 'the lack of guidance of how the wall h~
had to be built out in the ocean. It was expected that it would be
built to result in a satisfactory wall."
Harold Radcliffe: "That is not within our prerogative to tell a
contractor how to build a wall."
Turner Wallis: "I'm glad to hear you say that. The City knows
of no unusual conditions. How is the action of the City been taken
that records that fact, because, if we are faced with that as the City's
position at this early stage we are not going to get very in an effort
to negotiate."
City Manager Gatchel-~ "Turner, I've been sitting back here just
listening to this and to tell you the truth from the letters that. I
have received from you I had come to this meeting anticipating that you,
represent Dickerson, would be in a position to state your basis for a
claim, and I can't see where our discussion to this point has resulted
in such. Maybe I was under misapprenhension in coming into the meeting,
but I feel that if there were changed conditions out there that caused
Dickerson to incur additional expenses to which they had not been ad-
vised or they had not informed themselves of or conditions as unantic-
ipated for any reason that there should be a statement of those condi-
tions on your part, and if you are prepared to attach some value to it.
! thought that was the purpose of this meeting. I don't feel that
any of us representing the City of Delray Beach are in any position
to debate these items that you might have. I, for one, don't wish to
enter into any debate. I felt that our purpose was to hear you out.
That you sustain additional expenses due to a change in such conditions
and therefore it resulted in X dollar value or it doesn't even have to
be determined in a dollar value. I felt that was the purpose of this
meeting. Was I wrong? Didn't you intend such as this to come about
at this meeting."
Page 6 Re-Beach Revetment NAy 4, 1967
Turner Wallis: "I had anticipated that I would have had more
time in advance of an initial meeting than I have had. I think that I
had made that fact plain to you and the mutual desire on the part of
the City and the Contractor to avoid undue delay made it seem that
overall we might save time by meeting at this stage of preparations.
If not to be fully prepared to your mind nulifies all the value of '
having the meeting we can call it off right now because I can't go that
far at this moment."
City Manager Gatchel: "Turner, ! think we have well recognized
yours and Walter's and Ted's schedules. Yours involved around the
legislative program of the Florida Shore and Beach Preservation Asso-
ciation, among many other things in your busy schedule, and certainly
Walter's and Ted's busy schedule involved around some of their con-
tracts which they have just been successful in road construction, etc.
When was our last meeting. (Someone said January 20th) It was in
January that we held our last meeting and of course we are desirous
of wrapping this thing up and certainly I realize that Dickerson is
desirous of wrapping this thing UP. I think we have been most patient
in continuing from our last meeting in January to this date, May 4th.
I think we have been quite lenient in allowing time, whatever time
Dickerson would need, and certainly we want to continue to be easy to
get along with and certainly want to allow whatever time is necessary,
but I can't help but feel that the conversation to this point isn't
getting us very far. We have no knowledge, we have no means of know-
ing of what provisions Mr. Crowell for Dickerson had planned on in the
conduct of his work on this beach. We didn't know whether it was a
sand dike that he had planned for. The Contract was let in good faith
to get the job done, and we realized that if we had a dozen contractors,
there would be a dozen different ways that each and every one of them
would plan to conduct the work. There might have been some other
plans of other contractors for something other than a sand dike. You
have indicated here this was Mr. Crowe11's plan. In truth and in fact,
the sand dike worked in some places out there, and other places we
agreed and acknowledged the fact that it didn't work, but this was a
provision which our engineers write into our specifications by allowing
any and all contractors to bid on two different sections of beach.
Certainly we realize that one section of the beach was narrower than
another section of the beach, and how they, Dickerson, planned to con-
duct their work we had no way of knowing. We had no way of realizing
what effect the raising or lowering of the profile of the beach might
have on their ability to conduct the work in accordance with their
plans which they made previously. Their plans which they based their
bid price on so here I think that statements to date on your part and
· the unprepared answers on the part of those representing the City are
really and truly getting us nowhere."
Turner Wallis: "You are disappointed--is a good word to use--over
the presentation made thus far, is that it isn't in sufficient detail
to fully document where this, that, or the other happened."
City Manager: "Yes, I feel that you have, in presenting and sub-
stantuating any claim, are certainly going to have to come up with some
more specifics and some more detail than we have been able to hear this
far, Turner. I will realize that you prefaced your remarks at the
outset of this meeting that because of your busy schedule you had not
been able to get certain details up in conjunction with your presenta-
tion of the claim. If we don't have any more details than we have had
to-this point, Turner, I feel that there is little that could be ac-
complished out of such a meeting as this."
Turner Wallis: "Details are available. There is a question in
my mind whether this is the time and place to present them."
Page 7 Re-Beach Revetment May 4, 1967
City Manager: "How in the world are we ever going to analyze
them and take position on them at all until we hear some of the details
and some of the basis of your claim."
Turner Wallis: "I don't question that you have got to have that.
I am as disappointed as you are that there isn't a greater disposition
to give guidance towards deciding which of the items of increased cost
would seem to qualify as a claim for additional compensation, so I
am perfectly willing to pass to other matters and you will receive
with very little further delay what would seem to us to meet your
requirements for the substantiation where those changes of conditions
related to the money involved increased costs."
City Manager: "Fine then. We will expect those just as soon as
you are able to prepare them. Do you want to go on to the next dis-
cussion."
Turner Wallis: "Finish the discussion for the.moment regarding
the change of conditions, With an understanding that the City doesn't
want to consider any aspects to a changed condition claim until we
have that in detail."
City Manager: "I feel this. Do you John and Harold, do you
feel that."
Harold Radcliffe: "I would like some specifics on .... "
Turner Wallis: "Well, I don't think there is any question but
what this is a chicken and egg situation, and from where you sit you
have one feeling in the matter and from where we sit we have another.
We had hoped there would be greater exchange of ideas of how to resolve
this in an equitable manner rather than that which was to be the
subject of the kind of proof that you require in court."
City Manager: "Turner, as I said some time ago, I think our
position here in this City now is one that we have no position to take
in any matter involving increased cost due to the changed conditions.
We have no position to take in the matter."
Turner Wallis: "I think we have gone as far as we can that serves
any useful purpose. Stanley, do you have any comments? .... the action
of the City's representatives, the increased costs."
City Manager: "I think that was the next item you brought up."
Turner Wallis: "The first one that comes to my mind is the
requirement regarding the holes in the top of the blocks where certain
blocks were directed to be cast without holes, andothers with holes in
the side. Is that a matter of knowledge to those present, that was
the case?"
Harold Radcliffe: "I didn't know that was a specific directive."
City Manager: "Was that a directive of those representing the
City?"
Turner Wallis: "Mr. Caudill."
Harold Radcliffe: "He wouldn't accept them any other way? Was
this a suggestion or a'direction?"
Turner Wallis: "It's a position of the Contractor that he sub-
stantuates with a great deal of factual data that there was no choice.
It wasn't until it was demonstrated that they wouldn't work other than
page 8 Re-Beach Revetment May 4, 1967
With the holes in the top. The reason for eliminating the holes in the
top was the feeling Mr. Caudill expressed that the patch on the holes ·
expressed that the patch on the holes wouldn't bea perfect match."
Harold Radcliffe: "What was the purpose of the hole you are
talking about. Which hole is it."
'Turner Wallis: "Lif the block into the ."
Mark Fleming: "Do the specifications show it in. ."
Turner Wallis: "Cast approximately 400 blocks without holes.
Mr. Caudill influenced james Wall to do this. Caudill brought a
little ½-inch electric drill and drilled a few holes in green concrete
about 2 inches deep and insisted this was the proper way to do it.
The result was that we had to have a drill rig and mend the drill
holes after the block was delievered in the frames. They could not
be drilled in the top before, because only the top block was accessible.
Also they were scattered in various locations and casting areas. Cast
approximately 5,000 blocks with holes in the side instead of the top.
This was at the insistence of Mr. Caudill. Admitting that those that
had to be holes he still didn't want, and despite the provisions in
the contract about the manner in which the holes were to be filled.
He said he did not like blocks with the holes in the top because the
patch would show. This required cutting holes in the forms which had
to be patched back. This pick-up arrangement would not work because
the pick-up chain and pin hit the adjacent block. Also, the block
would not balance and frequently turn upside down, also the block
would drop off endangering men. I ask the question, is this something
known to the City, or is this their first knowledge]"
City Manager: "I think I can best answer that from my own stand-
point. After all, there are a group of us sitting around here now,
but from my own standpoint, I know that this alternate means of lifting
these blocks was under consideration. I know that it was being tested.
It was being tried. I knew that it had been suggested, that it might
be a lot easier on the contractor if such a side hole method were de-
signed, and certainly more aesthetically pleasing in the end result
if these holes are in the side rather than on the top of the block.
Such patchwork then would not show when the wall was finished. I did
know that this was a matter of suggestion, but suggestion and trial
only. This is the first, to my knowledge, this is the first that we
have heard of any such demand being made by Mr. Caudill that this be
a method of construction in handling the block in the place. I will
ask around the table if there is any such knowledge on the part of any
of the City here---representing the City."
Stan Kelly: "I knew of no directive to change. I knew, as you
did, that they were experimenting with relocating to avoid filling of
these holes which it would seem right costly 'to patch them if they
could avoid it, but I knew of no directive that this was ."
City Manager: "Did you know of any insistence on his part."
Stan Kelly: "No."
Harold Radcliffe: "I didn't know of any Dave, but I think this
is a point that we should investigate. This is exactly they type of
point that we want to get down to the root of."
Turner Wallis: "It is true that the contract documents antici-
pated holes in the top and the need of patching, and made provision
for how that patch should conform to the rest. Is that correct."
City Manager: ~Yes."
Page 9 Re-Beach Revetment May ~, 1967
Turner Wallis: Therefore, it was the contractors prerogative,
if that's a good word to use, to do it that way, and to do something
that had the result that this had was certainly not done by choice.
It was done of necessity. It certainly increased the cost."
City Manager: "May I ask, for the purpose of the tape here, any
knowledge that our City Engineer Mark Building, might have on this
experimental method of holes in the side through Mark, and he certainly
didin't give me any indication of any insitence or'directive on the
part of anyone on the City, representing the City. Mark, can you ..... ."
Mark~Fleming: "No. My recollection of it is practically the
same as has been expressed here. I knew that Mr. Caudill, in the
interest of obtaining a good surface and completed job, was interested
in developing a method of handling the blocks which would eliminate
such a hole. I knew that he suggested it to the contractor, and I
knew that they attemp%ed to use it for a while. Beyond that, whether
that was a suggestion or directive, I couldn't say."
Turner Wallis: "Do you have any knowledge what made it possible
to discontinue casting blocks with no holes~"
Mark Fleming: "What made it possible to discontinue
that's correct."
Turner Wallis: "The information that I have is, that after 400
blocks were cast without holes, it was apparent to everybody's satis-
faction that there was a necessity for holes, so my question is: What
were the circumstances that resulted in a discontinuance of this no
hole processg"
Mark Fleming: "Unless I misinterpret, that is the question we
have just been discussing here. The no hole process resulted as an
outcome of deciding to attempt to sue the process of putting pegs in
the side."
Turner Wallis: "So the no holes 'were demonstrated to be a fail-
~re."
Marking Fleming: "That, I em not prepared to say. I know they
were discontinued."
Turner Wallis: "Was the discontinuance of the side holes be-
cause of the demonstrations of those in charge satisfaction that that
too.was a failure?"
Mark Fleming: "By those in'charge~-areyou referring to the
Engineers or the Contractor's man in charge?"
Turner Wallis: "Those with the power to direct the continuance
or discontinunace of that procedure."
Mark Fleming: "Presumably the Contractor."
Turner Wallis: "It's not entirely clear to me what Mr. Caudill's
role was. What was the nature, extent, and limitation to Mr. Caudill's
authority?"
Sounded like Stan Kelly: "He was called, under the specifications,
an inspector."
Turner Wallis: "I didn't understand you."
Stan Kelly: "In relation to the specifications, I would say he
would fall under the catagory of inspector, as the specifications were
written."
Page 10 Re-Beach Revetment Nay 4, 1967
Turner Wallis: "I question that based on the .... one of the early
meetings when he was designated to be the Engineer!s representative.
It would appear that his role was more than that of an inspector."
City Manager: "To the City's best knowledge and belief, if I can
speak this, it was our understanding that he would be the inspector on
the job. The inspector, and I beleive that we have, I beleive if I
am not mistaken that we have minutes of City Council meetings which
will bear out this fact."
Turner Wallis: "With no responsibility beyond those spelled out
in the contract doc%hments for the inspector."
City Manager: "I would have to clarify that position in my own
mind before I could answer your question, Turner."
Turner Wallis: "Well, I think it is sufficient, there is an
indicated desire on your part tg make further investigation unless
Stanley wants to add something. I have nothing further to add other
than that it is the requirement to try to place block without holes.
The side holes is one of the actions of the City representative which
contributed to increased cost."
City Manager: "I think this was a point of your claim which we
can now take and consider and analyze and give you an answer to it.
I think it's a point worthy of further consideration and we will cer-
tainly do so."
Turner Wallis: "Do you want to add anything before we pass on.
On October 25th, Caudill told Melvin to pour blocks' near one of the
pipes drain solid and changed his mind after it was poured. Melvin
had to rework some of it. I s' that of any knowledge to the ones
present~"
City Manager: "It is not to my knowledge, Turner. I have no
knowledge of any such directive."
Harold Radcliffe: "What was the job that he was told to do?"
Turner Wallis: "This occurred on October 25th when Mr. Caudill
told Melvin to pour blocks near one of the pipe drains solid."
Harold Radcliffe: "Near or around it, do you know?"
Turner Wallis: "Well, my guess is .... what I am reading is a
verbatim copy of daily reports made by contractor's employees to the
setward officer."
Mr. Radcliffe: "Did they say near pipe?"
Turner Wallis: "I would guess that it had to deal with either
putting the block in or pouring concrete to give a permanent bond, or
actually in lieu of block, pouring concrete around the pipe. The
interest this had to me was, how does this bear on Mr. CaUdill's roll
of being only an inspector."
Mr. Radcliffe: "Does it state that he later changed it, that
he had to tear them out. Read it again, would you please."
Mr. Wallis: "On October 25th, Mr. Caudill told Melvin to pour
blocks near one of the pipe drains solid and changed his mind after it
was poured. Melvin had to rework some of it, so he did that which he
was told, and upon change of attitude, it was the contractor's respon-
sibility that the thing hadn't been done as it was directed. It was
then directed to be done a different way."
Page 11 Re-Beach Revetment May 4, 1967
Mr. Radcliffe: "May I ask, who is Melvin?"
Mr. Wallis: "One of the Contractor's employees."
Mr. Radcliffe: "Not a superintendent. Not a supervisory employee.'
employee."
Mr. Wallis: I would be the first to admit that the lines of
co~nunication, and the manner of communication spelled out in the
contract document was not ridgidly adheared to, but I have never known
that to be the case. I haven't anticipated that we were to be unduly
concerned with whether shomething was in writing. It iwmy feeling that
everybody was in there moving heaven and earth to get a job done and
to hell with the niceties of how you were supposed to tip your hat
and address only certain people."
City Manager: "Turner, at that stage of the game up in October,
I'll certainly admit that everybody was in .there kicking and trying to
get the job wrapped up. This is a point that I believe we would have
to look further into. This point of direction as you put it there, to
one of the Contractors employees. I don't think any of us right now
could answer your question but here again as in the case of your last
point, we will certainly look into it ans will analyze it and give you
an answer on it."
Turner Wallis: "We poured approximately one hundred and fifty
feet of the 9-foot wide walk with more than the planned slope and no
complaint was registered while it was poured."
Stan Kelly: "It was. I was here myself and complained. I will
challenge that myslef right now. You can mark that one off. I pointed
out to the men while they were pouring it, and they continued to pour
it. I happen to remember that specific date."
Turner Wallis: "I will finish reading ..... no complaint was
registered while it was poured. The Engineers recommended it to be
removed and replaced. Does anybody care to add to what Mr. Kelly has
said?"
City Manager: "I well recall the paticular instance as Mr. Kelly
just stated. Mr. Kelly was over there at the site at the time and he
advised me later on that afternoon that he had registered this complaint,
and yet the work did continue and did go in at more than the allowed
slope on the berm portion of the construction at that time."
Turner Wallis: "I think that simply illustrates that there is
give and take in these matters and with the circumstances being what
Mr. Kelly has stated and we have had confirmed there would certainly be
no disposition to press that matter, and that further illustrates why
there was a desire in the interest to minimize the time and work to
have a meeting of the minds, because otherwise this would have been
computed out so I feel somewhat vindicated that there are things that
as discusssion develops don't stand the test ...... "
City Manager: "Of course, Turner, I agree with you wholeheartedly.
We are talking about now some area of specifics and this is what we
are in a position now to hear you out on and it is such as this will
have to be in a matter of give and take, as you put it, in working
these things out together."
Turner Wallis: "This is rather closely related to that former
one: After Caudill had marked out the extent of blocks to be removed,
Mack and Caudill had a set-to about replacing some asphalt sidewalk.
Mack told him he would not replace the asphalt sidewalk unless some-
one besides Caudill told him to. Caudill immediately went hack and
Page 12 Re-Beach Revetment ~'~Y 4, 1967
extended the limits of the concrete block to be removed."
City Manager: "Can you read that again for all of us, Turner?"
Turner Wallis: "After Caudill had marked our the extent of
blocks to be removed Mack and Caudill had a set-to about replacing
some asphalt sidewalk. Mack told him he would not replace the asphalt
sidewalk unless someone besides Caudill told him to. Caudill immediately
went back and extended the limits of the concrete block to be removed."
City Manager: "This is the concrete berm block referred to in
your last point?"
Turner Wallis: "That's my impression from the context in which
they appear in the daily records."
City Manager: "Does anybody here, representing the City, have
any knowledge of any such incidentg"
City Engineer: "I have no knowledge of this specific incident."
City Manager: "Apparently our City Engineer and our Engineers
have no knowledge of any such incident. Turner, I don't, so we.will
have to investigate this, and here again, give you an answer on it."
Turner Wallis: "The probably single biggest instance that con-
tributed to increased costs was the insistence that work start at
Station 750 and the length of time it was required that effort continue
in that. The contractor has the feeling that if the time that was
spent on amore favorable section of the beach, that progress had been
more nearly that contemplated and there wouldn't have been as great
need as later developed, to discuss the possible shut down of the
work. I was present on one occasion when Mr. Kelly, if I am not mis-
taken, it could have been someone else, indicated that there had been
no objection on the Engineer's part to the work starting on a more
favorable reach of beach, and that the insistence on the start at that
point came from Council."
City Manager: "Turner, I remember the point of discussion, and
as my memory best serves me now, there was a consideration given at
the time the contract was signed or thereabouts, as to where the work
would begin. Of course, the Council was considering the ~.pproximate
location of Station 750 as our most critical point of ercs~on. Prior
to the .... well even the preparation of the plans and specifications,
and this was a natural breaking point because a return w3~.l was to be
put in at Station 750, and of course it was the Council's feeling that
all things being equal, this would be the best place to start, at
Station 750 to close up our point of most critical previous erosion.
I don't think that there was anything of any binding nature in the
Council's decision at the time, and certainly there was no consideration
given by the Council, nor the Administration, to the fact that tt~is
would be one of the most trying and difficult places of construction.
We well realize that that was the narrowest part of the beach, but I
do not feel that there was any consideration or desire or direction by
Council that it start there other than a consideration to take care of
our worst first, all things being equal. I do recall that the efforts
at construction and getting started there at Station 750 did cause quite
a lag. It was hard to get off the ground there, but there was no
reflection from the Contractors to us, to my knowledge and belief,
that it was impossible to get started there until quite a later date.
At such later date, when the contractors, and this was both the prime
contractor, Dickerson, and the Sub-contractor Murphy, when they ad-
vised the Adminstration that best they wait there at Station 750 and
start elsewhere, there was certainly an agreement on our part, the
Administration's part, and the Engineer's part, to go ahead and start
Page 13 Re-Beach Revetment May 4, 1967
elsewhere, if they thought they could get the project rolling any
faster. The decission by Council I do not consider, in other words,
to be binding. I think the only consideration given by Council was
in the. light of all things being equal."
Turner Wallis: "Did the Council have the prerogative of making
such a decision, or did that rest solely with the Engineers."
City Manager : "I. don't believe that there was any consideration
given at the time as I recall that we were going to when I say we
I mean the City, the Council, the Administration or the Engineers, that
we were going to direct any particular point of beginning. I think it
was just a matter of choice put up for consideration. I think that
was the only light in which any desire of Council was ever injected into
any of this. I would like to stop right here and ask the Engineers
and the City Engineer and Mr. Worthing, who of course is the recorder
of all Council proceedings, if they remember or can inject anything
in here to the contrary from what I have just said. How about it,
Harold and Stan, do you remember any such?"
Harold Radcliffe: "I don't think there is anything I can possibly
add, but I think the 750 was established at the pre-work conference which
you attended did you notg"
Stan Kelly: "Right. Everybody was in agreement that that was
where we would start, at the pre-work conference. I think, if I am
not mistaken, that was all their positions, so it was agreed at the
pre-work conference that 750would be the starting place by all present
at that meeting, which included the contractor and engineers, City
officials, and this was, I guess you would say, the semi-official place
chosen to start, at this meeting."
City Manager: "Mr. Worthing, do you have any recollection at
this time of anything that entered into such an agreement?"
Mr. Worthing: "None whatsoever, Sir."
City Manager: "Do you recall whether we have minutes of that
meeting that we could refer back to.Of the pre-work conference?"
Stan Kelly: "I received a copy of the minutes of the meeting."
City Clerk Worthing: "I'm sure there are."
City Manager: "If such are available we will certainly dig them
out Turner. Mark, do you have any recollection?"
Mark Fleming, City Engineer: "I recall that the Council did
express a preference for starting at that point. Whether or not it
was in the form of a directive, I don't know, but I concur that the
reason for starting at that point originated in a pre-work conference
and not as a result of any directive."
Stan Kelly: "This is one of the things that was settled at the
pre-work conference."
City Manager: "To substantiate what they say, I think it was
a matter of mutual agreement and consent rather than a directive, but
we will be glad to dig out such minutes of the meeting Turner to further
verify either position, one way or the other."
Turner Wallis: "Were decisions by consent: The general that
decisions were made or was it the prerogative of the Engineer alone
to make decisions binding on the contractor?"
Page ~4, Re-Beach Revetment May 4, 1967
Stan Kelly= "The way the contractor and all parties were gathered
together to discuss the things in the future, I believe it was desir-
able by everyone. This si something that was kicked around. Everybody
had their, say and was agreed to. I had no reason for directing ..... . ~
Turner Wallis: "Every decision made was not made in that manner
of mutual agreement, there were other decisions made and that is the
point I am trying to clarify. When a decision was made contrary to
the desires of the Contractor, did that privilege rest with the Engineers
exclusively, with the Council, or was it an action that the Engineers
took only with approval of Council?"
City Manager: "Turner, in this particular instance right here
I want to answer that. In this particular instance right here, this
was a decision made by mutual agreement to all parties concerned,
Council, Engineers and Contractors. I don't believe that any other
such decisions were made by mutual consent. This was in a pre-work
conference preparatory to kicking off this entire construction project.
I don't see how we can sit here in carte blanche say to you that all
that such decisions were made in either one fashion or another during
the entire conduct of this contract."
Turner Wallis: "I see your interpretation of the contract
documents. (He said something about .... responsibility)"
City Attorney Adams: . "Following what he said, he said that we
would investigate it, and ! assume when you reply you will also give
them our interpretation of the Contract document. When is the last
time that you read the contract? He can't interpret it just like
that."
City Engineer= "I may be incorrect in this, but doesn't the
contract state that the contractor will present a programed schedule
of work satisfactory to the owner and the engineer and proceed thereon.
Wasn't that what we were doing at the pre-work conference?"
Turner Wallis= "I don't know. I wasn't present. You are exactly
right when you say that is a requirement of the document and that it
be updated. That seems to be one of the protocol matters that was
somewhat neglected. I don't have an impression from any of the records
that I have examined that the letter, maybe the spirit of that re-
quirement, was kept. That was to have been the support of each
monthly estimate. What is your knowledge of the extent to which that
was complied with?"
City Engineer: "As to the programing, as compared with ..... (two
or three talking) ...... the program fell well behind. It had to be
revised monthly."
Turner Wallis: "Two questions of interest have arisen out of
this most recent discussion. One is in question of decisions, generally,
not with reference to this point of start, and the other is that some
part of the work done was lost and the Contractor has the feeling that
there is a legitimate claim growing out of the replacement of that
which was destroyed by having to discontinue work at that point because
of the near inability to do work and move to another location."
City Manager: "Turner. we will certainly take this as a point
in your claim and will certainly analyze it, try to get the answers to
your questions and will answer to it."
Turner Wallis: "Stanley, is there anything you want to add at
this point?"
Stan Kelly: "No. Not now."
Page 15 Re-Beach Revetment May ~$, 1967
Turner Wallis: "A letter from Murphy."
City Manager: "To whom?"
Turner Wallis: "To Dickerson. The date of Murphy,s letter is
February l~th. This is a letter as a result of their request addressed
to Mr. Murphy for that part of the work that he handled that resulted
in increased costs.
This letter continues: 'Our first toe-wall construction was
started May 23, 1966, and we were restricted to the area of 7+50 with
full crew until June 27th, 1966. During this period, our production
fell down to a low tide operation and some days to no installation
whatsoever.'
Forced to'work where he did, he was only able to work during the
periods of low tide rather than the full anticipated schedule of work
which would have been the case elsewhere."
City M~_uager: "Now this was dated in February of 1967, was it?"
Turner Wallis: "This letter is based on Murphys review of his
records made at the time."
City Manager: "B~t this was review made in February, 19677"
Turner wallis: "The letter was written in February, 1967, but I
feel confident from statements made by Mr. Murphy that it was found
in records made at the time that these matters took place.
'On June 27th we were allowed to move into Station 2+50 and our
production picked up to the schedule anticipated.'"
City Engineer: "Mr. Murphy doesn't say who restricted him there,
whether it was Diokerson or the Engineer~ for the City."
Turner Wallis: "No, but I feel sure he is in a position to make
such statement."
City Engineer: "I don't believe the City gave any directions to
M~rphy as such."
Turner Wallis: "Your would-be instructions to M~rphy came from
the City or the Engineer. 't
City Manager: "The instructions to Murphy would come from the
prime Contractor Dlckerson."
Turner ~allis: "But they would be based on instructions that he
in turn received from the Engineer or the City."
City Manager: "I don't know what is impl~ d there, but I know
full well that any such instructions to Murphy would have come.from
Dickerson as being the prime Contractor. I don't recall right at the
time, we can look back into our records and see what our records show."
Turner Wallis: "There again protocol, if that is protocol, was
not observed because I think Mr. Murphy got instructions, what to do
and not to do other than from Dickerson. I don't think his instructions
were relayed in their entirety."
City Manager: "Turner, dU~ing the~o~r~-e~o£
there were meetings every ten or eleven days in which there were agree-
ments reached to the City Administration, and the Contractor, the in-
spedtors, and at just about all of those meetings Mr. Murphy, as being
a subcontractor, was in on those meetings. We would have to refer back
to our records as to any agreements reached to which he eludes here in
the form of allowing him to proceed at another station other than 750.
Here again we will refer back on this particular point."
Turner Wallis: "I am aware both from being present at one, if not
more than one, of those meetings and reading the memorandum file by
M~. Crowell of what you have just said, I would be the first to agree
that those meetings resulted in decisions or agrements to do certain
Page-16 Re-Beach Revetment Ma~ 4. 1967
~things that become binding on all parties. The only point I made was
that Mr. Murphy wasn't isolated from the Engineers, from the City
representatives, to the point where all instructions he ever got came
to him from M~. Crowell, his representative."
City Manager: "That is true. He was present at those meetings
as records on both parties will reflect."
Turner Wallis: "I have the impression that he got the instructions
in the same manner that Dickerson got instructions."
City Manager: "Well, by reason of being in attendance at the
meetings, I would say yes as to that portion of the conduct of the
construction which he was conducting."
Turner Wallis: "This has a bearing on what I last said. We have
also asked for permission to sound the job for exact elevation of
existing rock and cast the slab~accordingly in order to reach the
elevation of -5.5 called for in the plans and specifications. This
permission was denied by the Engineers. Ail slabs were cast to the
diminsion of 7 ft. by 8 ft. making it necessary for us to cut off the
tops of all slabs before cap could be installed. Mr. Murphy feels that
there is an equitable claim because there was an increased cost drawn
out off-that practice and there his statement is accurate. The refusal
came from the Engineers."
City .Manager: "I don't recall any such refusal, do you Stan?"
Stan Kelly: "I don't recall exactly, I will have to go back to
the records." This request was made prior to bidding by contractors,
he was denied permission to bid it this way because it was not set up
this way in the bidding document to do that."
Mark Fleming: "Did Dickerson incur additional cost due to the
fact, for instance, that Murphy was held up at Station 750 or is Murphy
making separate claim against the City for additional cost?"
Turner Wallis: "I don't think the position that anybody is making
plain that we are discussing increase cost."
Mark Fleming: "Did it increase Dickerson's cost that Murphy was
delayed ?"
Turner Wallis: "I have no knowledge of those physical relations
between the contractors and subcontractors. Mr. Murphy and Mr.
Dickerson would be your best source of information for that."
Harold Radcliffe: "Did the total cost that you talked of earlier
this $125,000 that was talked about did that include additional cost
on Murphy's Dart as well as Dickerson or was that exclusively Dickerson?
Turner Wallis: "It makes a distinction between the two. It's
increase cost for the performance of work done by both of them. I take
for granted there unresolved and unsettled payments between the two
just as there is between the prime contractor and the City. I regard
that as part of my promise to investigate."
Harold Radcliffe: '~hat I mean to say, is that if we arrive at
these points then are we faced with the claim from Murphy coming through
Dickerson in addition to what we worked up or is this going to be taken
up as a whole package?" How do we approach it in other words."
Turner Wallis: "Based on my knowledge, all that is involved here.
~. Murphy's relations with the City are through Mm. Dickerson and if
he has a claim it rests~with Mr. Dickerson. Your Attorney can advise
you on that much better than I can."
Harold Radcliffe: "I was talking about the lead work, I was
wondering whether or not what we were talking about today included
Murphy's cost as well as Dickerson's. While we were talking a few
minutes ago you mentioned you are not talking about claims we are
talking about increased costs. Are we talking about Murphy only or
Dickerson plus Murphy?"
City Manager: "I think he answered the question. Turner, am I
Page 17 Re-Beach Revetment MaY 4, 1967
· right, assuming the matters that you are bringing before us now are
all as a package of presentation of points for consideration in this
claim?"
Turner Wallis: "That is correct. I do not represent Mr. M~rphy.
Mr. Crowell felt justified in asking me to investigate what the increased
costs were on the job for the work performed by the two. I haven't
questioned Mr. Crowell. I considered that which was between he and
Mr. Murphy to be best left between them."
Harold Radcliffe: "Basically we are looking at the whole package."
Turner Wallis: "That is correct."
Harold Radcliffe: "O.K."
Mark Fleming: "It is quite pertinent however to the City inasmuch
there was considerable adversity of opinion between Dickerson and M~rphy
as to where and when Murphy should work. If such delay to Murphy was
caused by directive from the prime contractor or by the directive from
the City."
Turner Wallis: "Ican appreciate that there will come a time
when you will need to have~ in satisfactory form the assurance that Mr.
Murphy will accept the results of negotiation had with Mm. Dickerson.
A good bit of the information I've obtained regarding this matter is
from memorandums that Mr. Crowell mostly dictated to the machine in his
car as he rode back to Stuart. I can appreciate from reading some of
them that they were certainly not written the following day with any
cooling off period. They sound like something you guys have written.
I would be glad if it would be helpful to obtain his permission to make
these available if the factual matters that he deals with
I think this throws a lot of light on the mere acceptance that' p~shing
that log to completion had some very objection features and that a lot
of consideration was given to not to continue the work during the mere
critical expectant hurricane period. I think everybody was fortunate
that when the decision to take the gamble that was taken was made that
it paid off as well as it did because I think you were aware to an exten"
that I was asked for an opinion and my recommednation was not to attempt
to finish the Job against the hazards that were ahead. I envisioned
many many blocks in the pavement. In the street that you hope to use fo~
the accomodation of traffic and I envision a wall very vulnerable to be
attacked by hurricane. My reason for mentioning that is the choice of
how this matter is going to be approached whether one of difference of
interpretation of the letter of the contract documents or whether it is
going to be approached from the outset in anticipation of more normal
conditions th~n existed. You got a bid subtainally lower than the bids
you received from others and you got a bid from a person sufficiently
informed in these matters to possibly more accurately evaluate what
cost would be than other who bid. You have a choice to make there and
when that choice is maOe it should have a considerable bearing on how
we can resolve this matter."
City Manager: "Well, Turner I can see some of your points that
you bring out now. Your points to be considered. I feel sure that we
will give just and true consideration to these points. I have assured
you you would have your answers to them. I feel sure we will conduct
this in such a manner."
Turner Wallis: "I have nothing to add to what has already been
said."
City Manager: "you have no further items to discuss at this time
then, Turner? Is there any comment on the part of our Engineers?"
Harold Radcliffe: "No, my only comment is that I'm glad we got
down to some specific that we can actually look at in specific cases
and determined facts. After we have investigated them we will be in a
better position to discuss it further I believe."
City Manager: "Mark, do you have anything?"
Mark Fleming: '~othing."
City Manager: "Engineers? How about it John Ross?"
Page 18 Re-Beach Revetment ~Y 4, 1967
John Ross Adams: "Not a thing."
City Manager: "Bob, Tom. Well, I guess this would conclude our
meeting at this time. Turner, we left quite an open ended question
here involving your first item that you wanted to discuss, these changed
conditions. Is it your intent now to furthur substantiate your points
that you wanted to discuss involving these changed conditions."
Turner Wallis: "I had hoped that there would be more cognizance
taken than has been of those changed conditions and lessen the work of
proving point by point along the beach what those construction condi~
tions were but I'm perfectly prepared by the records and to the extent
that they make it possible and the pictures that were taken and I'm
sure that your records are as good or better than those that I have
access to and they can be reviewed in the light of that. I thinkyou
will have to pursue that course."
City Manager: "Ail right that is certainly agreeab!~ with us that
we follow that line. Do you have anything in the way of a time estimate
now as to how long this would take when we can anticipate getting to-
gether again?"
Turner Wallis: "I would be happy to accept from you a desired
date and work to that end because if you were to ask me what would be
convenient and that,s my hard luck."
City Manager: "Well, Turner any time from tomorrow on let's put
it that way the sooner the better."
Turner Wallis: "Well, actually more has been done than I think
you have the impression. Our picture documentation is complete. These
pictures all tied,~the day they were taken and what they purport to
show. I had hoped that I was going to find more identification by
closer range of stations than I have been able to find. I don't think
that is really important because I had hoped to work in units of a week
because the records I have worked from .... I didn't load these with
unrelated material. All this has been pertinent to the job. Bob and
Stanley haven't been exactly honest. I have had access and made use of
their daily time sheet which is transmitted on a weekly basis. I have
had access to their daily log with coded operation. I have had access
to the cost sheet kept in Monroe, N. C., and every item by appropriate
catergory is reflected on that sheet and the initial desire has been
tO closely identify what was being done in a given week by the station
locations. With that I don't find it possible to do. If that is desir
able and if the engineers find that they have that in greater detail,
I will be happy to have that test of it made when they get our material
or receive your material and do you a better Job. "
City Manager: "well, Turner I would think the next move hare
would be relating these picture documents that you have here these ~
pictures of e~idence towhat~yod 'would cbnsid&r'.or~what~ Di~kersonwould
consider a norm what they anticipated and how much the changed condi-
tions might have affected the cost involved of the work. I think that
would be our next point because here again we have no ability to
anticipate what his anticipated working conditions were when he bid
this job. We just don't know what he expected to do in the way of
protection from the seas, the profile changes, etc. We don't know the
difference. We need to have put before us a degree of difference in
how it affected the cost so that we can analyze it. Would this not be
our next move, Harold?"
Harold Radcliffe: "I would think so, yes."
City Manager: "Mark anything to add to it?"
Mark Fleming: "I think that we should know if Dickerson con-
templated that t~ere would be no change in the beach elevation during
this construction period, or if he contemplated that there would be one
or two feet or Just what he considered would be a normal fluctuation
in the elevation of the sand out there.
Turner Wallis: "Right or wrong he contemplated an improved
condition during the period of the year of the Job was built. We base
that on his experience working at that time of year elsewhere."
Page 19 Re-Beach Revetn~nt ~Y 4, 1967
City Manager: "Yes, I know he has worked alone the coast here
in other locations and the locations might compare with Delray and they
might not, I don't know, but I think this is what we need now is an
estimate from you or a presentation from you as to how these changed
conditions affected his anticipations when he bid this Job."
Turner Wallis: "He have done a limited amount of work comparing
the wind direction, a~d laying of pipes and things like that for the
period this job was under construction with what the records would seem
to indicate was normal or to be expected at that time of the year. Un-
fortunately, the records that are of greatest detail are no closer than
Miami where you've got the recording stations. So, we have at one time
given very serious thought, we've done this elsewhere, we've compared
the predicted, which is the tidal influence alone with that which was
recorded and there you get your wave and swell influence. That could
be done from Miami Beach but that was one of the points that we heped
to avoid because it is a very laborious undertaking. (Mr. Radcliffe
asked if they kept those records at the W. Palm Beach Station) The
nearest station, and we gave very serious thought and only rejected
for that reason. I had recent occasion to do this over in St. Peters-
burg while I appeared in opposition to one of those fills. I compared
the predicted daily tides there at St. Petersburg with the recording
and it made a very startling contrast. EverYbody gets up and testifys.
They have an entirely different meaning associated with low water, mean
tide and a lot of people have the impression that the range reflected
on the charts happens every day, never any deviation. If you ever want
to prove that isn't so, make that comparison.
City Manager: "Yes, we realize there were differences in tides
out here day by day as recorded by our tide gage which we put out there
and certainly we realize there are fluctuations up and down from what
would be considered as norm. We experience this every day on our
beach, we have for all time and we will for all time hence."
Turner Wallis: "But answering Mr. Fleming's questions, there is
no doubt and the bids substaniated that he expected the conditions to
become more favorable rather than less favorable as you advance into
the anticipated period. He stoutly averts that he's on record with
you folks that you couldn't do it in 90 days, that it was going to take
120 days even with the best of conditions and he felt that he could
hazard the risk of not completing it in 90 days by the good showing he
was going to make. I think if he hadntt anticipate better conditions
you would have gotten higher bids because I make no claim that Mr.
Crowell is in this business as a philanthropist."
Mark Fleming: "Well, the basic question then I guess would be
whether or not he was justified in presuming there would be bettering
conditions when they were bidding in competition with other contractors
and whether or not the city is responsible for that conclusion on his
part."
City Manager: "Well Turner I hesitate to try to establish here
and now any time for a future meeting. I think the City and all of its
representatives would like to get this completed as early as possible.
I would urge you to invent that 25th hour in eabhlday~ so.to speak,
so that we could hasten this along to a conclusion. In this regard
the City, over the signature of Mr. Fleming, our Engineer, did advise
Dickerson yesterday of these points of failure in the wall to which we've
eluded before at Station 750 and another little sink now about 100 feet
south of Station 750. We had all agreed at our last meeting, in which
Mr. Tyson was present, that these should be fixed by the contractor and
we all agreed at that time they were not of such severe importance that
they needed to be fixed right at the time due to the tourist season being
right on us then. We agreed that after the season was over that they
would then come in and they would be in a better position from the stand-
point of their own crews and equipment, etc, to come in and fix it. We
did advise them yesterday as I said, by letter signed by Mr. Fleming,
that our season is over and these little failures, these points of
failures there should be fixed. We are desirous of going ahead and get
those repaired now. I just mentioned that, it doesn't have anything
really to do with this meeting but I will realize this is another point
separate and apart from this meeting but as soon as Dickerson can get
in we would appreciate it and get this work done."
Turner Wallis: "I feel entirely confident that that's entirely
Page 20 Re-Beach Revetment May 4, 1967
- an un~elated matter."
City Manager: "That's true as I stated."
Turner Wallis: "Because there was no hesitation in the statements
and insurance given you in the last meeting. That isn,t a matter that
involves me. I will be very happy in reporting on this to Mr. Dicker-
son, bring that into discussion."
City Manager: "That's right. As I said it is unrelated, it has
nothing to do with the purpose or the intent of this ~eeting here but
the letter has been sent and I just mentioned it Just as a matter of
information here."
Turner Wallis: '~ell, I'm sure that to your entire satisfaction
that within the shortest possible time he will do that as though there
was none of this resolved. I would like to make a suggestion that
rather than have another meeting let me send this to you because I think
it will be some advantage in advance of a meeting for that which I
submit to be reviewed rather than see it for the first time in the
meeting."
City Manager: "Well, I agree with you, that probably would be a
good idea."
Turner Wallis: "I will be very happy with the least possible delay
and then the actual time for a meeting can be at your convenience
£ollowing the gate of your receipt which I will make as soon as possible.
City ~nager: "All right. Fine Turner. I think that's a good
plan. I think that's a good suggestion. O.K. With this then I guess
the meeting for the time being is concluded.
Page 21 Re-Beach Revetment MaY 4, 1967