09-03-64SpMtg g97
SEPTEMBER 3, 1964
A ~ecial meeting of the City Council of Delray Bea~ W~8 held
in the ~O~ncil Chambers at 7=30 P.M., Thursday, September:~, 1964,
with M~ Al. C. Avery in the Chair, City Manager Robert ~ i~olland,
city ~ne~,~ohn Ro~a Adams, and Councilmen ~=y
LeRoy ~F~ft0 and Jack L. Saunders, being present,. Talbot' ~zaS absent.
MayO~ Avery called the meeting to order and announce~ ~at same
had bee9 '~alled for the purpose of discussing policy conOa~g
CLEO, recent
Clean-up ~perations as a result of .... the hurricane, and
for an~ o~her bus,ness which may come before the meeting,
M~OF Avery asked City Engineer Fleming to read and ~9~ain his
memora~um "Estimated Costs of Clean-up After Hurricane
"~U~ect: Estimated Costs of Clean-up After Hurricap9 'CLEO'
(Costs shown are additional, above normal'i~as
etc.) 8/27/64
Period - ThuFs.~/27 thru .~nday 8/30~6~
Wages $2380
Equipment Rental 1190
Total $3570
Ppriod - ~on. 8~31 t~ru Fri. 9/4
5 days ~ $250 $1250
Total Cost Thru Friday 9/4/64 - $4820
If the clean-up after Friday 9/4/64 is carried on during
regular working days as it ia presently bein~ handled, it
is estimated that the Trash Department will be back to
normal operation by close of work, Tuesday, September 29th.
Cost - 9/4 thru 9/29 $4000
Total Est. Cost ($4820 + 4000) $8820
If all forces are worked over the Labor Day week-end (Sat.
9/5 thru Mon. 9/7/64) it is estimated that the Trash Depart-
ment will be back to normal operation by close of work
Wednesday,'Sept. 23rd.
Cost - Labor Day Week-end $4290
Cost 9/8 thru 9/23 3000
Cost thru Fri. 9/4 4820
TOtal Est. Cost $12,110
Disregarding the possibility of another hurricane striking
the area, it would seem logical to avoid the high weak-end
cost and complete the clean-up on regular working days at a
savings of $~290.
It might also be noted that city crews have worked every day
Since the hurricane struok and would appreciate an opportunity
to clean up thair uwn Properties o~er th&aweek-end. 'They
could be worked the following week-end if deemed necessary.
9/3/64
"On the other hand, if the probability'of another hurricane
is imminent, it would'be advantageous to have as much debris
removed as ~ossible before it strikes."
MayorAvery~ "This is very comprehensive. Do you have any questions
to ask Mark about this?"
Mr. Saunders: "You have got it broken down here now through tomorrow,
$4,820. Are we half through?"
City Engineer Fleming: "No, sir."
Mr. Saunders: "Well, we have spent better than half the money. YOu
estimate $8,800."
City Engineer Fleming: "That's $8,800 if we continue working on week
days, but we've already worked two holidays, Saturday and Sunday of
one week, whichsent our cost way up in additional equipment."
Mr. Saunders: "Well, why wouldn't ~hat show in here~ if we've al-
ready worked them?"
City Engineer Fleming: "Because it's in the first figure of $4,820."
Mr. Saunders2 "That's what I say, if we are not half with that figur%
it seems like to me that we ought to be half through with cleaning
up, if the total thing is $8,820."
City Manager HOlland: "Mr. Saunders, I think I can solve that prob-
lem for you. Saturday, Sunday and Monday we'll have more equipment
than we now have in service. I think Mark missed that point."
Mr. Saunders: "We'll just use it over the week-end."
City'Manager Holland: "Additional equipment."
Mr. Saunders: "Here is another question I would like to ask. Suppose
we quit all these extra trucks, and all this extra stuff as of Frlda~
the fourth,and we have spent $4,820,, haven't we? Alright, how long
will it take our regular City crews to clean the darn thing up,work-
ing an average day, five days a week? Is it going to run into October,
or November or how long would it take?"
City Engineer Fle~ing: "well, about'all that is working on it now
is our regular City crews. This $250. a daYis for rental of trucks
to keep the whole crews working."
Mayor Avery: "You missed it now, you mean our regular City crews but
you are putting all extra City personnel and Parks Department and
everything. He is talking about the normal work,and the Trash D.e-
partment itself takes up the clean-up, the same group that has been
making one pass in front of every property every week."
City Manager Holland: "Well, I think I can help Mark on that. I've
looked at the bac~ yards and I don't know whether he has had a chmnce
to get in them or not. There is more in the back.yards now than we
have hauled or is now on the streets. If you don't believe' it, I'll
show you."
Mayor Avery: "Mr. Saunders, this that he points out is an estimate
only because goodness knows how muchis in the ~ack ya~dsand all, and
we would not want to be wrong."
-~- 9/3/64
.~ ~ig~re8 on
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~ou= _~ ~e~ '_ _ ~S~ ~OU= __~, moS~ ~'_ =~OU~a,~"_
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-rob~b~Y ~' -~ke the s~ -. ~uch cl~ _. that w~ .... ~n~Y _ .. if .~e
g -=Te no cru~ ~asters, a~ we
~asters. ,'~e have two trash
cranes a~u · . , "I ~$~ x~ ".=e all City
City ~'~ -~ecaUSe .w~ ~cauSe we ,~_~ t~oUb~e ~-{n t°~aY "~i~Cle
~.-.~0 0~ ~ -- *e~ O~ A~_ *0 se~- v W~re°. - ~hat
-..~ S%~1~ - -~aS ~w~ ---~ {~ %~ '* --n~ OT o~.~ .... ~ ~0 ~- _
av~ ~n8 they _.,~ these ~'__~ ~uC~ ~
.,. c=o~: .-~o~, soU, '-"' .
~'~' __.= vou'V~ 7~; itT"
got
. ,,yes, ~ - ..,ere ~a~
_ ollana~ _ ark~ yo~ ~ sai8 uo~=~:,~ or
,,~ ta~ ~-.~ off, ~ 1. ~,suallY ~
~' ~ two ----~ dO ~'
.~ ere?" ~ne bel°~gs -- ~oeS ~o~_~ because
g;~ting ou~ ~ .
Mr. Croft: "The one- that goes c~own to ,the garage goes out on pipe
lay£ng and road digging."
City Manager Holland: "But they are doing as good a job as the trash
master right now."
Mr. Croft: "Figuring that they took the two cranes off, left the two
trash masters and the crews operating, that would reduce the seven
miles per day to four miles a day and would bring the total working
days up to forty-two instead of twenty-four. Take twice as long
wouldn't it? You are~proJecting from next Tvesday= forty-two work-
ing days would carry you to what day of what month?"
City Manager Holland: "I can't answer that. Suppose I give a good
example."
Mr. Croft: "! Just can't go on simple accounting, Bob. I'd like to
know a date."
City Attorney Adams: "Forty-two,subtract eight from that for Friday."
Mr. Croft: · "Take out two weeks, John."
City Attorney Adams: "It would be six and two-thirds weeks. Six
weeks and four extra working days."
Mr. Croft: "Just with the regular crew we have working now, not
working over time. It will carry you almost, according to that, if
you have guessed right, almost to the first of November."
City Manager Holland.' "May I make this statement, Mayor. When we
worked the northeast and southeast sections, east of the canal, there
wasn't anything there. It was clean. Cleanest I have ever seen it.
Go over there now and try to get down those roads. I don~.t know
where it comes from. Z'11 give you a good example, next to the last
Mayor's house. I went out there to open the corner so people didn't
have to go through this lady's 'driveway, and I am one who violated,
and she didn't like it. On Highland Lane or whatever you call it.
That truck stayed there-f~om ten o'clock yesterday morning until nine
o'clock this morning, working for two houses. Maybe you had some
trash in there, I don~t know."
Mr. Croft= "No, none of that was mine."
City Manager Holland: "But it all came from in back of those two
houses, and he got out of there Just after;lunch."
Mr. Croft: "Had they finished up?"
City Manager Holland.' "They went around in a circle, then came back t¢
clean up."
Mr. Saunders: "They-went aroun~ my house the other day."
City Manager Holland: "Yours isn*t out where they can see it."
Mr. Saunders: "It is right by the side of the =cad."
City Manager Holland-. "Well, maybe part of it is now, but I was down
there yesterday and it wasn't on the road."
Mr. Saunders: "It's been .there since the day after the storm, Bob.
I hauled it all out there myself."
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501
City Manager Holland: "I must be going blind,I see so much trash. I
didn't see it."
Mr. Cro~: "Well, I would rather personally it be beside mY house
if he ~ going to let some area go."
Mr. Saunters: "I'm interested in getting this stuff cleaned up with-
in reasen~ but I'm not interested in just going complete!y haywire.
I'm no~ ~ying you are. I think you are doing a darn good ~o~ on it.
But ! b~$~eve the people in town understand these things ~n4~that it
takes ti~ and that they will all, moat of them, within reg~g~, be
patien~ ~f we have the City crews go about their buainesS":ah~ clean
Mayor ~e~y: "Do
Novemb~!i' you think we ought to take until almos~ ~ 1st of
Mr. sg~ers: "I don't think that will make any difference, We may
get so~ing else in between, where we may have to put o~ some more
City Manager Holland: "But if we let off the leased trucks that we
have got now, that are covering our regular crews, we wouldn't get
through until next year."
Mr. SaUnders: "What? I didn't understand that."
City Manager Holland: "Waits minute now. We have two extra laborers;
one is driving a crane and one is helping on one of the City trucks,
and one on a leased truck. We got three leased trucks.. If we cut those
out and go back to City ope=ation and kill the two crane~ you won,t
get through this."
Mro Croft: "According to my figures,it would take forty-two working
days instead of twenty-four."
City Manager Holland: "'Mark's theory is right, but I have been in
more back_yar~s'than he has. It is going to make a big difference.
I'll give you a good example. We picked up a tremendous pile in front
of Mrs. Irving's up here, who maybe some.of you know.- There is a .
forest back there. She started putting it out on Swinton today and
I asked her not to and I gave her all of 1st Avenue up here and just
leave me room t° get by, 'and it's goihg to be full, a nd that is
nothing that we will have to'pick up immediately because it won't'be
ona right-of-way and won't bother anybody, but there will be ten or
twelve truck loads in-'there.~ we have got that kind of thing all over
town. Now, it's immaterial to me;~l don't want to work as I'm tired
anyway. I"m not asking for the job. I'11make one more statement.
The Parks Department needs to work Saturday and Sunday because we've
got trees down that we ~an save in the is!ands and in the-cemetery.
I think you should be notified of that purpose~ Mr. Cartee told me
this afternoon that he ~sn't sure that they are going to live and he
isn't sure that~they a=e~going to live.after Tuesday~ But it is a
chance we have got to take if you want his crew to WOrk and knock the
rest of them off."
Mr. Croft: "I want to go back to just one thing. I want to clarify
what Bob said a few minutes.ago about the street being blocked off
out there,at my place. The reason that was,' if you ,went past there
you could see the people that had no front, yard and .they couldn't put
it in their drive, everythi.ng was just piled in the street. Where
all the rest of us up there, we~blocked up Our.drives. I was better
off'because you could g6 around mine.' But this particular area, 'they
were blocking the street, because itwas all going in.the street not ~.
-5- 9/3/64
502
"on their property. This is what. created that bad condition there."
Mr. Saunders: "Well, I've got it on my property, but I also got
about five of my neighbors on my property. I told them there is no
use having five everywhere and I had a big pile of. it, so I Just told
them to bring it over on mine. I assumed it wouldn't be there but for
a day or so."
Mayor Avery~ "Here is my observation, just for what it is worth,
since we are just handingout'observations so we can come up with
something. During the hurricane season, and if you takethe policy
that is going to take very close to November, and according to Bob
Holland's estimate, certainly a lot longer,and it will throw you into
the season, but you are also in hurricane season.. Now, I don't think
it is ridiculous that this thing says 'DORA' is heading north, to
gamble on 'DORA', but to gamble on the entire season is a pretty
tough thing. It would seem to me that you would proceed with as much
ex~ediency'during the normal workweek, extra help and everything,
not work on week-ends Unless you have got another hurricane threaten-
ing you, at which time you make the decision at that time as to
whether to work week-ends. Just tosit here and gamble on the entire
hurricane season would make me a little nervous. Now, that. is just
my thought. John, you had a thought there. What.was it?"
City Attorney Adams: "I am more particularly worried about N. E.
8th Avenue and the big piles we have in front of my house. My only
thought, I don't think that you want to be in a position where you
are considered negligent in the Pick-up or anything like that because
=in another storm, there could be a lot of debris flying around. That's
the only thing I would say. Of course, what negligence is is hard to
say."
Mayor Avery: "But your thinking as a lawyer is'.thatifyou develop the
utmost expediency in the normal work week and did not work on week-
ends, watching the hurricane charts, that this could be defended as
expediency. What is your thinking?"
City Attorney Adams: "I think the only thing you have to do is you
just have to act like reasonable men would under these circumstances.
That'sall. When you are spendingtaxpayers'money, you have to be
concerned ~ith those things too. On the other hand, you shouldn't go
through January or February picking it up."
City Manager Holland= "The reason I made that statement and Ithink
I'm in truth,'is the fact that there is a tremendous amount of people
that are not here now and nobody has done anything on their yard and
they are torn all to pieces."
Mr. Barrow: "That gives us a chance to clean up some of them that
are here; then we can take care of the others."
City Manager Holland: "Well, that-iS what we are doingnow, but they
are putting it out faster-and of course one thing that's made a problem
to us is'the fact that these nursery men ar~ loaded and they can't
do any more'than they are doing now. So they got a smart way of
putting it on the street,then going off and leaving i~. I've caught
half a dozen of them, but what can you do about, it? On the other
hand,there are several individual tree people in here. Florida Power
& Light has thirteen; that's right, thirteen crews. Supposedly they
are taking it off, but they are not. we're hauling it.. I can show
you all over the City. ~t's either let it lay till --- but I still
say my calculations are right if this continues. Now, we got the
County~ I got permission from the County today to burn that when it
dries, by putting the pressure on the.people you told me the other
'-6- 9/3/64
503
"night wished they were in the City.. Mr. Worthing can further en-
lighta~ ~ on that if he gets to that point and I told a nursery man
if I catch them trucks down there with that amount, I got the spotters
out, an~ I'm going to turn you back and you are going to h~v~ to
carry ~ ~omewhere; you're not going to put it in here."
Mr. Sau~ders: "Why is that?"
City Manager Holland: "Up in the Northwest section ....... ,--."
Mr. 8aunders: "These outside areas you're talking about?"
City Manager Holland: "Yes, that's right. So I agreed to let George
Warren, yesterday when he was here,' 'continue to put his ~Nucks in
here unde~ certain conditions. He complied today so I'll 1et him
continue to dump the County over here, which is creating another
burden for us though, we've got a mountain down there. Well that
was un4er the agreement, that Mr. Reed and he will agree that when this
dries, we can burn what is on top of the ground, as long as we can
dispose of it. He said under the regular conditions, with the fire
trucks there,it would create no problem and he agreed to it. So that
solved that."
Mr. Saunders: "That won't give you the problem that a burning dump
will, anyhow it'll burn ."
City Manager Holland: "It Will burn on the top of the ground. It
won't bother anything on the bottom. So; we~are getting it from
everywhere. You can't police it now. We have already policed it and
trucks are coming from every which way. You have too .many thieves.
If he knows the story,and all of them do, he'll tell you a lie any-
way, so there ie no use checking."
Mr. Croft: "so you are not checking at all."
City Manager Holland: "We are tryingto, but I'vegot one man down
there pillng the trash and burying the garbage. I've got everybody
else picking up."
Mr. Saunders: "Well now, is this money coming out of the Disaster
Fund ?"
Mayor Avery: "Well, wait a minute. No, we agreed at the budget
meeting that we.were goin~ to pay this trashstock first out of the
Contingency Fund. We weregotng to leave the Disaster Fund as it
stands. We decided to. leave the Disaster Fund at $60,000, this trash
thing, the 'CLEO' thing, out of the Contingency we have."
Mr. Barrow: "I don't remember that. I don't remember hearing that."
Mayor Avery: "That is correct. We have $60,000, approximately. We
have $20,000 in the Contingency Account. We discussed this in detail
the Other night and we decide~ we would leave the $60,000 as-it is
in the Disaster Fund and wewill-use this $20,000 out of Contingency,
because at that time we were' thinking in terms of $5,000 or less, lf
you remember that figure we mentioned."
Mr. Barrow: "That'sright, I remember."
Mayor Avery: :"And we woUld pay it out of Contingency. 'Frankly, with
$20,000 in your Contingency Fund and you~ewell.into September and
October the let, there is nothing wrong with paying this whole bloom-
ing thing o~ of the Contingency. ~n-fact, lt.-is.more in keepin~
with what you wanted to do anyhow."
9/3/64
504
City Manager Holland: ',Bear in mind now that you have got' Saturday,
Sunday and Monday that everybody no doubt will be home. I'd like to
clean my yard too. ! don't care about working, but I will work if
you so order. But you'aregoing to have, as Mark says,more on the
streets by Tuesday morning, I believe, then wehad todayj So I'm
just concerned as for traffic.This particular street where Roylives
and where you live, Jack; they are narrow. And ! beg these people,
'please'.N~w over by Mr. Sanderson's house, he called me-at four
o'clock and said,~'m putting it out on the streets edge%and I said,
'Leave room for a car and I'll pick it up first thing in the morning.'
I did. I worked thatWhole section and I didn't leave any problem.
Regardless of'who'puts it out,with flares or not, somebody piles into
it and then somebody is in trouble, and I don't want it to be me.
But they had no place to.put'it, either on the one street or the
other. So he picked the lesser of the two evils and put it on 2nd
Avenue, right up by Mr. Barrow's house. So it is just a question of
how you want to schedule it,as it is immaterial to me."
Mr. Barrow: "Frankly, based on experience, when you work people
seven days a week,you are not getting any more than when you work them
~ve days a week. I bought and paid for that experience."
MayorAvery: "Efficiency drops off, you are right,"
Mr. Barrow: "Efficiency drops off and you don~t get any more; you
get less if anything; you get less a~d I bought and paid for it trying
to make money With it and I didn't. And I can't see working these
people seven days a week, Now, if the streets are blocked up and
you can't get through, if a driveway is blocked up and you can't get
in,I might consider going overboard a little bit. But as long as the
streets are open and you can get throughand driveways are open so
you can get in, I can't see working these men at the regular salary.
I can't see working them seven days a week because you won't get a
bit more in the seven daysthen you will in the five."
Mayor Avery: "You will get less in those two days becaube of their
efficiency; they are tired."
City Manager Holland: "Well, there is one thing you want to take into
consideration, the additional period and manpower . with equipment.
If it is going to have to be pitchforked on, I think Mr. Barrow is
a hundred percent right."
Mayor Avery: "Regardless of the human values there, .. the average
amount of work produced per day in seven days is much less than the
average amount produced per day in five days and this is common know-
ledge in the construction business, and you' are working machines and
men there."
Mr. Croft: "In support of that same thing, of course, I said that
same thing to you today or this afternoon, as you will recall. This
boy works for you on this truck cleaning up out there. Now, they
have been working. There is no question about that. He said/Mr., I
is so tired~I worked all this week-end. I can't hardly go.' So there
you are - they worked this week-end and they can't go."
City Manager Holland: "But that situation will be corrected Saturday,
Sunday and Monday, if you choose, because~it will be on the machines
and they won't be doing it by hand. That is what I was trying to
bring out now." . ~
Mr. Croft: "I'm not considering working them over the week-end my-
self. X think they ought to have the week,end off to stay home and
do some of their own yards."
-8- 9/3/64
505
Mayor Avery: "By the same token, I do feel in the. interest of the
public safety, and the unforeseenis what is in these back.yards. I
think the estimates of time, if anything, are too conservable9, I
still think in the normal five days,we should work full sp~4 ahead
because this is the hurricane season, and I don't think it ~'~ waste
of present money and I don't think the public will object ~9 the
money being spent to get the City cleaned up in the normal .Work week,
if we go as fast as humanly possible." .
Mr. Croft: "Mr. Mayor, you are talking about with the additional
equipmen~ he has hired now?'
Mayor Avery: "That's right."
Mr. Bar~ow: "Well, what about this equipment hired; do we have to
pay for that on-the week-end if we don't use it?"
City Manager Holland: "Only on an hourly basis."
Mayor Avery: .."I think the $8,820, at this time, with 'DORA' heading
north and we have to hope she will continue going north, at this
time, it would seem to me that the $8,820 figure would.serve the best
interest of the public in speed and efficiency also."
Mr. Croft: "As I u~derstand the $8,820 figure, Mark, that is hiring
extra trucks, working cranes."
City Manager Holland: "But wedon't have them._"
Mr. Croft: "Trucks that we don't have now, working our own cranes,
working our own crews five days a week and in twenty-four days ..... ."
City Engineer Fleming: "That's trucks that we are using ~ow."
City Manager Holland: "No, the $8,800 is projected for b~g trucks we
are supposed, to hire for the week-end."
City Engineer Fleming: "No, that's not in the figure of $8,820.
That's in the $12,000 figurel This $8,820 is continuing on week days
just with the trucks we have now."
Mr. Croft: "These additional pickups, the hand pickUps that you
hired."
City Manager Holland: "They are in there,but they would be cut off."
Mr. Saunders: I think we are talking about two different .things. Now.
Mark is talking about a $12,000 figure here if we are hiring these
trucks."
City Engineer Fleming: "That's right. This figure here, the $8,820,
is for starting next Tuesday and continuing straight through just as
we have done this week and are doing right now."
City Manager Holland: "That wiil be next week-end instead of this
week-end."
City Engineer Fleming: "Not working any week-end. Week-end days
cost the City just about six times ...... ."
Mayor Avery: "It is this simple. Projected, and this is a guess
because of what is in the back. y~rd~but from the best guess that you
can make, for $8,820, we ~.n go full speed ahead and finish by Tuesday,
September 29th."
-9- 9/3/64
506
City Engineer Fleming: "Yes, that is my estimate."
MaYOr Avery: "WhiCh is a nice full speed ahead~ But it pays that
the p~blic can't criticize us as being negligent in the speed with
which we do it, the way you prosecute the Job."
Mr. Barrow: "I believe that I can make it a little more simpler than
that. We got to move the trash, and the question now is whether we
try to move it by working Saturdays and Sundays or working five days
a week. In my opinion, we can move just as much trash by working
five days a week as we can seven days a week. Do you want to work
five days a week or do you want to work seven days a week?,'
Mr. Croft: "That's how simple it is; that's all there is to, it."
Mr. Barrow: "I thought that what Bob was saying a while ago was that
some of this equipment he could only get on week-ends. That's a fact
that kind of enters in there and I just wonder."
City Manager Hollandt "But we can do it next week-end; we don't have
to do it this week-end, if you gentlemen so desire.''
Mr. Barrow: "Well what are we using now?"
City Manager Holland: '"We've got one straight -and three
small dump trucks."
Mayor Avery: "That's what you are using.in addition to yours; you
hired those."
CityManager Holland: "YOu've got twelve trucks, including two from
the street department. The street department is busy with their two
trucks that are left to them, leaving~eight men cleaning the alleys.
I can't get equipment."
Mayor Avery: "In other words,using eight City trucks and four hired
trucks. Now, is that during the week?"
City Manager Holland: "Yes, sir."
Mayor Avery: "Alright, then beginning on the week-end when you get
Curly Diller,you put on his trucks,which makes more trucks."
City Manager Holland: "I'11 put on three more big ones and another
one,if I can find it."
Mayor Avery~ "But we can work full Speed ahead With some hired
trucks so that it is beneficial for the cranes, practical - not ideal
for.the cranes, but keep the cranes busy for this $8,820 figure. Is
that right ? The other way, we just save the number of working days,
but that is where your efficiency is with ~h~ee ~o~e trucks."
City Manager Holland~ "If you want itthe other way and eliminate
the Parks Department out of here, you would have a considerable savings
forthe three dabs, but the Parks Department doesn't need to work on
trash. They have got enough problems of their own. That's in here too,
~n the $8,820."
Mr. Barrow: "How many trucks are you using in a day?"
City Manager Holland: "One truck, and I've got how many men, Mark?
Ten ?"
City Engineer Fleming: "Seventeen."
507
Mr. Barrow: "But that's included. You are using all them on the
trash now."
City Manager Holland: "No, they are back to normal now. ~hey are not
back to normal]" butI have given..al! the crews back but three men."
Mayor Av~N~: "In this $8,820, the Parka Department can get caught
up with ~heir own problem children thatare going barefooted~,
City Manager Holland: "That is, if we use them."
Mr. BarFow: "Is there much damage to the nursery?"
City Manager Holland: "Quite a bit. But I am letting tha~ go to get
the cemg~ery and parks. Then I have got to do all of this at the
got to ~e'~ut up and gotten out of the way so we can get to them to
haul them away. The trees that are down is all that I'm concerned
with. If ~hgY are not going to die, it'll be fine; we can wast' ~nti!
Tuesday and set them up."
Mr. Croft: "I don't think any that ere standing are going to die
between now and next week ."
City.Manager Holland: "We saved all these out here, Roy. It suits
me if you want to start next Tuesday and tell me how YOu Want it
done."
Mr. Barrow: "One thing I wan~ed to ask, Mr. Mayor, if ...... . Fleming,
a while ago, you were talking about how many miles per day a~d I guess
Bob surveyed it with him. Bob did or somebody. Do you think that
exists all over town astothe trash you have got to haul? Are there
some areas that you don't have to haul as much as you do in others?"
City Manager Holland: "I'll give you a good example. This one out
here has been out here since a week ago today, right across the
street."
Mr. Croft: "Well I know."
City Manager Holland: "We're just leaving that because we can look
at it."
Mr. Barrow: "I know the stuff at my place has been there since a
week ago today, too."
Mr. Croft~ "I would rather they leave it at my place and pick it up
someplace else."
Mr. Barrow: "I still go back to my original statement and the question
is, do we work five days a week or do we work seven days a week, dO we
accomplish working more by working five days a week or do we accom-
plish more by working seven days a weekF'
Mayor Avery: "Well, I personally will go for this plan as covered in
the $8,820 figure and the paragraph preceding it, with the thorough
understanding that this is a horseback' guess and if: the trash
exceeds the expectations, that it will go past September 29tb~and that
the bill will be high because, every day that you go,it will cost that
much more,and if you exceed your expectations out of these back' yards,
there is no way under God's green earth that they can guarantee it,
and it will go past September 29th and this $8,820 will go eaCh day -
how much a day is it?. About $250. a day? If there is no way you can
estimate on the nose,if we got lucky and ~id come up with the
508
"expectations and we finished a day or tw~ early,We would save that
much."
City Manager Holland: "But ! doubt if that will happen.''.
Mr. saunders: "I don't know about everybody else's trash, but I've
got about 90% of mine already out there waiting to be picked up and
if the next passing gets that,then the next load when they bom~ back,
what is in the back yard won't amount to much because I've gotten .it
all out there."
Mr. Barrow: "Now, I'm off base, I guess. The question tonight is
whether we are going to work seven, days a week or whether we are going
to work five days a week, whether we can accomplish more by working
seven days a week and paying overtime or whether we can accOmpIish
just as much or practically as much by working five days a week. Now,
that is the deoision, I'd say."
Mayor Avery: "This is right. The first one is a five day a week
plan, the second one is a seven day a week plan. ~You are correct and
it may run a little less, maybes"
Mr. Barrow: "We've got to move the trash. Whether we can move it
cheaper.five days a week or cheaper seven days a week, that is the
question, as ! see it."
Mayor Avery: "It would be cheaper per day only five days a week."
Mr. Barrow: "That's my thinking, too."
Mayor AVery: "The total cost. may be up because of volume."
Mr. Barrow: "You've got to move the trash whether you move it in
five or seven daYs,and whether you can move it cheaFer in five days
or seven days, my thinking and my opinion is that you can move it
just as cheap in five'days as you can in seven days a 'week."
Mayor Avery: "Just so this will be clear in any motion you make, let's
call this first plan here to identify these two plans."
Mr. Barrow: "The point I am making, Bob, is we have got to clean up
this mess; none of us side step that issue. The question we got be--
fore us, is it best to work five days a week or seven days a week.
I bought and paid for trying'to work men seven days a week and I
found in the long run I didn't get any more out of them When I worked
them seven days a week than I did five, becad~e they loafed off the
next week and you didn't gain a darn thing by it. I'm further con-
vinced that we can take this trash up by working five days a week and
letting the men off Saturday and Sunday as we can by working them
saturday and Sunday. That is the only question I see."
Mayor Avery: "I think to be clarified,Mr. City Manager, that we've
got two plans here. We call one the five day week plan, and the other
the seven day week plan. We will use the figures as guides only be-
cause we know that they are not firm, and as Emory says, we'll decide
to go on a five day or seven day a we~k plan, and if the hurricane
warnings in the future require a change, we can adjust accordingly."
City Manager Holland: "Mr. Mayor,then let me make a suggestion. ~%y
don't we close tomorrow night at five o'clock and go back to work
Tuesday morning?"
Mayor-Avery: "Well,that is your five day a week plan, Mr. City
Manager."
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509
City Manager Holland: "Then if we can see we are in trouble,we'll
go through next week-end and not this one,and give everybody a rest."
Mayor Avery: "Yes, but you will be on a five day a week plan and if
you want ."
City Manager Holland: "well I won't have but four days next week."
Mayor Avery: "But it is still the five day a week plan."
City Manager Holland: "Alright."
Mayor Avery: "What is your pleasure? Let's get with it. Make a
_ motion."
Mr. Barrow: "I move for the five day a week plan."
City Manager Holland: "With a regular crew."
Mr. Barrow: "With a regular crew."
Mr. Croft: "That's the regular crew With,these 'additional trucks."
Mr. Saunders: "That's the $8,820 plan you are talking about."
City Manager Holland: "That's the $250 extra that we are paying now."
Mr. Saunders: "This is the $8,820 plan."
Mayor Avery: "That's the total, $8,820. we're going to a plan and
knowing it, we are lucky if it stays under it."
Mr. Croft: "Is that okaywith you, with this extra equipment?''
Mr. Barrow: "Like we are'doing 'now, but on a five day a week, Roy."
Mr. Croft: "Pive days, but with this extra equipment,which is the
question now."
Mr. Barrow moved that we set as a policy the five day work week
plan and if weather conditions change, we'll reconsider. The motion
was seconded by Mr. Croft and carried unanimously.
City Clerk W°rthing discussed the exchange of the COok property
earlier this year on N. E. 1st Avenue in back of the Rexall Drug
Store. "At the time of this property exchange,there were two old
awnings on this building. One of the awnings "CLEO" took care of.
The other remains. The City has received an offer of $30.00 for this
remaining awning on the store. Does the Council accept this offer or
does it have some other use for the awning? If decided to accept
said offer,it would be advertised for two weeks as to the terms of
the proposed sale, which is that old second hand awning be sOld for
$30.00 and there being no objection,such sale would be consummated."
Mr. Barrow moved that the City Clerk advertise and sell the
awning on the Cook property building. The motion was seconded by Mr.
Croft and unanimously carried.
City Manageri?~°lland was directed to survey the area of North
Swinton Avenue and 22nd Street regarding cars cutting the corners so
short, also the possibility of. putting a blinker light at the corner
of N. swinton and 22nd Street.
~ ~he meeting adjourned at 8:15 P.M., by order of Mayor Avery.
M A ? O R ( ~ City Clerk
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